butt joints in clapboard siding

[t***@bellsouth.net]

I'm looking for a reference that discusses the alignment of butt joints
in horizontal wood siding.
There seems to be no "industry standard" that sets the number of boards
between vertically aligned joints.
I've checked some manuals and some web sites that might speak to this
and found nothing.
I'm trying to answer the question: "Is it acceptable to have butt
joints in successive courses aligned.

Any clues or comments?

Tom Baker

[3D Peruna]

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
I'm looking for a reference that discusses the alignment of butt joints
in horizontal wood siding.
There seems to be no "industry standard" that sets the number of boards
between vertically aligned joints.
I've checked some manuals and some web sites that might speak to this
and found nothing.
I'm trying to answer the question: "Is it acceptable to have butt
joints in successive courses aligned.
Any clues or comments?

Is there a reason to do this? Aesthetics?

[t***@bellsouth.net]

Is there a reason to avoid vertical alignment of joints?
That would be part of an answer, if there is an answer.
I've been told by local contractors that appearance is involved.
I've been told by local contractors that aligned joints allow water to
penetrate the wall.

My personal response favors appearance where the joints are not located
as part of the design.

Tom Baker

[Matt Whiting]

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
I'm looking for a reference that discusses the alignment of butt joints
in horizontal wood siding.
There seems to be no "industry standard" that sets the number of boards
between vertically aligned joints.
I've checked some manuals and some web sites that might speak to this
and found nothing.
I'm trying to answer the question: "Is it acceptable to have butt
joints in successive courses aligned.

I wouldn't do successive courses as the chances for leaks would be much
higher and it would be ugly as well. I always tried to have at least 3
courses between aligned joints to keep things looking good.


Matt

[t***@bellsouth.net]

The "three course rule" seems to be common.
Your concerns for water penetration and appearance are mentioned often.
I've found a comment by the Vinyl Siding Institute:"Stagger the siding
end laps so that no two courses(rows of panels) are aligned
vertically, unless separated by three courses(rows of panels). " . No
rationale is given.

Tom Baker

[GLT]

What you discribe is called frieght training...Never do it...in other cases
as with starter board, drywall, or exterior sheathing...you can't have
sucessive joints...also it looks like crap...Imagine if you built a deck of
2X6 redwood, and had all the seams land on one joist,....just doesn't look
good..

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
The "three course rule" seems to be common.
Your concerns for water penetration and appearance are mentioned often.
I've found a comment by the Vinyl Siding Institute:"Stagger the siding
end laps so that no two courses(rows of panels) are aligned
vertically, unless separated by three courses(rows of panels). " . No
rationale is given.
Tom Baker

[t***@bellsouth.net]

"frietht tran" is an interesting tag. I've not heard it before. Where
is it used? The sentiment against freight training and the three course
rule turn up in casual conversation like this, but I can find
absolutely no written reference to it. Has anyone seen any written
mention of this often, but not universal approach?

Tom Baker

[Lil' Dave]

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
I'm looking for a reference that discusses the alignment of butt joints
in horizontal wood siding.
There seems to be no "industry standard" that sets the number of boards
between vertically aligned joints.
I've checked some manuals and some web sites that might speak to this
and found nothing.
I'm trying to answer the question: "Is it acceptable to have butt
joints in successive courses aligned.
Any clues or comments?
Tom Baker

Have you checked the public library for UBC and IRC publications?

Some areas have no code whatsoever. The county or city has not adopted any
specific code, nor are there any permits. If a document does not exist in
any case, or if code is not provided, the prevailing acceptable methods are
what the builder uses.

If you're a housing inspector, I can see the need for your documentation.
Otherwise, the answer is moot.

[t***@bellsouth.net]

I've checked IRC 2000, which is the local code.
It says nothing about alignment of butt joints in siding.
I have found that the Vinyl Siding Institute speaks to the alignment of
butt joints.
They give no rationale.

I'm working as an expert witness for failures in residential
construction.
Lawyers love documentation.

Tom Baker

[t***@bellsouth.net]

moot

adj 1: of no legal significance (as having been previously decided) 2:
open to argument or debate; "that is a moot question" [syn: arguable,
debatable, disputable] n : a hypothetical case that law students argue
as an exercise; "he organized the weekly moot" v : think about
carefully; weigh; "They considered the possibility of a strike"; "Turn
the proposal over in your mind" [syn: consider, debate, turn over,
deliberate]

TB

[Uncle]

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
I'm looking for a reference that discusses the alignment of butt joints
in horizontal wood siding.
There seems to be no "industry standard" that sets the number of boards
between vertically aligned joints.
I've checked some manuals and some web sites that might speak to this
and found nothing.
I'm trying to answer the question: "Is it acceptable to have butt
joints in successive courses aligned.
Any clues or comments?
Tom Baker

The question answers itself. "Successive" is in part defined as:
"following in order : following each other without interruption". The
answer would be: It is not acceptable to have butt joints in successive
courses aligned.

The entire industry reply would be the same.

Are you attempting to read more into the question than which is posed?

[Uncle]

Post by Uncle
"following in order : following each other without interruption". The
answer would be: It is not acceptable to have butt joints in successive
courses aligned.
The entire industry reply would be the same.
Are you attempting to read more into the question than which is posed?

I didn't state the reason, because I assume you would know why.

If you put butt joints over butt joints in successive courses, it will leak.
Just as roofing shingles would leak.

[GLT]

Plus that, it looks butt ugly....which reason enough in my book..

Post by Uncle

Post by Uncle
"following in order : following each other without interruption". The
answer would be: It is not acceptable to have butt joints in successive
courses aligned.
The entire industry reply would be the same.
Are you attempting to read more into the question than which is posed?

I didn't state the reason, because I assume you would know why.
If you put butt joints over butt joints in successive courses, it will leak.
Just as roofing shingles would leak.

[3D Peruna]

Post by GLT
Plus that, it looks butt ugly....which reason enough in my book..

I don't know...properly detailed, I think it could actually look very
modern and somewhat stylish. Of course, I also see some vertical
contrasting color elemets at the but joints....

[t***@bellsouth.net]

Post by 3D Peruna

Post by GLT
Plus that, it looks butt ugly....which reason enough in my book..

I don't know...properly detailed, I think it could actually look very
modern and somewhat stylish. Of course, I also see some vertical
contrasting color elemets at the but joints....

I've seen photographs of several residential jobs with carefully
alligned butt joints.
They can look really stunning. (IMHO)

With more ordinary design, aligned butt joints can look dumb.

How is your own house coming?
You promised to keep us up to date.

Tom Baker

[3D Peruna]

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
How is your own house coming?
You promised to keep us up to date.
Tom Baker

SLOW. Thanks for asking.

My framing subcontractor overbooked his schedule and is only 2 months
behind on my project. As a result, everyone else is goofed up, too.

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of firing him and going with a
different framer (and he's about done now, anyway). All the decent guys
were already busy and the guys who weren't...well, you wouldn't want
them framing your house.

I'm almost fully enclosed (some windows & doors left) and need to get my
roofing on.

Patience...is wearing thin, though.

[Noozer]

Post by 3D Peruna

Post by t***@bellsouth.net
How is your own house coming?
You promised to keep us up to date.
Tom Baker

SLOW. Thanks for asking.
My framing subcontractor overbooked his schedule and is only 2 months
behind on my project. As a result, everyone else is goofed up, too.

Try waiting two months to pay him and see him change his tune!

: )

[Misterbeets]

The exterior siding is not expected to be completely waterproof.
Aligned seams do create an opening for water, but this is not a serious
problem as long as the building paper or housewrap behind is intact.

[Lil' Dave]

Post by Misterbeets
The exterior siding is not expected to be completely waterproof.
Aligned seams do create an opening for water, but this is not a serious
problem as long as the building paper or housewrap behind is intact.

#15 felt and/or housewrap is not expected to regularly prevent water
intrusion when directly attacked by water. Its more of a vapor/moisture
barrier.

A similar situation can be seen with asphalt/fiberglas shingles and cedar
shake roof. No break should be in alignment. If the underlayment is
exposed, the owner is expected to immediately correct the situation.