Discussion:
upgrade from R19 to R30
(too old to reply)
Harry
2005-10-06 23:34:20 UTC
Permalink
my builder offers to upgrade the insulation in the ceiling from R19 to R30
for $1000. It is a 2200sf house in Florida. Is it worth to do the upgrade
?
PipeDown
2005-10-06 23:54:29 UTC
Permalink
If you end up running the A/C quite a lot, it will eventually pay you back.
You could do it yourself for quite a bit less later by adding a layer on
top. Sounds like he is going to just substitute a thicker batt. Since you
are building, this amounts to less than one months morgage payment. Might
as well let him do it and save your sweat. Energy costs can only go up it
seems.

If you pay extra for anything, you should go for hurricane reinforcement
type options if they are offered (more nails, thicker wood, more
construction adhesive, roof tie in braces etc. if not already standard), it
won't save any energy but it might save the house.

What do they put in the walls (2x6 construction?) If its 2x4 and you only
have R-13 , it might be pointless to put more on top.
Post by Harry
my builder offers to upgrade the insulation in the ceiling from R19 to R30
for $1000. It is a 2200sf house in Florida. Is it worth to do the
upgrade ?
Rudy
2005-10-07 00:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry
my builder offers to upgrade the insulation in the ceiling from R19 to R30
for $1000. It is a 2200sf house in Florida. Is it worth to do the upgrade
You do the math..look at the bundles of batts at HD and figure out how much
more 2200 Sf of R30 is than 2200 sf of R19

His figure sounds high, but then I'd be suspicious of any builder that even
'offers' to put R19 in a ceiling.
PipeDown
2005-10-07 18:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy
Post by Harry
my builder offers to upgrade the insulation in the ceiling from R19 to
R30 for $1000. It is a 2200sf house in Florida. Is it worth to do the
upgrade
You do the math..look at the bundles of batts at HD and figure out how
much more 2200 Sf of R30 is than 2200 sf of R19
His figure sounds high, but then I'd be suspicious of any builder that
even 'offers' to put R19 in a ceiling.
if your house is 2 story, the insulation will me more like 1000 sf in the
attic.
Nehmo
2005-10-11 00:40:38 UTC
Permalink
- Rudy -
... I'd be suspicious of any builder that even
'offers' to put R19 in a ceiling.
- Nehmo -
OP is in Florida. If in south Flordia, that's Heating Degree Days (HDD)
Zone 1. Given normal other factors, R19 for the cieling would be
*acceptable* down there.

This shows a map (but not the most recent code, which involves
trade-offs and is more complicated):
http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/info/documents/pdfs/26450.pdf
--
)|||(__Nehmo__)|||(
Rudy
2005-10-11 08:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nehmo
OP is in Florida. If in south Flordia, that's Heating Degree Days (HDD)
Zone 1. Given normal other factors, R19 for the cieling would be
*acceptable* down there.
I guess R30 would help keep the heat IN the house, when theyre more
interested in getting the heat OUT down there.
Will have a look at the Inlaws place (FL) and see what they have when we re
down for Xmas

R
Kris Krieger
2005-10-11 17:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nehmo
- Rudy -
... I'd be suspicious of any builder that even
'offers' to put R19 in a ceiling.
- Nehmo -
OP is in Florida. If in south Flordia, that's Heating Degree Days (HDD)
Zone 1. Given normal other factors, R19 for the cieling would be
*acceptable* down there.
When I lived in the Vancouver, BC area, the requirements for insulation
were low because the climate was supposedly "mild".

Because of crappy insulation, for a similarly-sized house, we paid a
minimum there of 2X more (sometimes up to 3X more) in heating costs than
we'd paid in the *Toronto* area.

IMO simply talking about HDD is ridiculous, because air conditioning is
typically more expensive.


- K.
Post by Nehmo
This shows a map (but not the most recent code, which involves
http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/info/documents/pdfs/26450.pdf
Rudy
2005-10-12 00:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kris Krieger
When I lived in the Vancouver, BC area, the requirements for insulation
were low because the climate was supposedly "mild".
Because of crappy insulation, for a similarly-sized house, we paid a
minimum there of 2X more (sometimes up to 3X more) in heating costs than
we'd paid in the *Toronto* area.
When we were in the Vancouver area in the mid-late 1990s, our "equal
payment" energy (hydro and gas combined) was running ~ $ 100-103/mo on an
annual basis..Didnt know how good we had it then. Total about $1200 yr. The
electric rate was ~4 cents US/ 5.5 cents CDN KWH then.

We moved to Az in 1998 and built a new home there (R38 ceilings R 24 walls)
that was 60% larger and the electric rate was 7.5 cents Winter and 9.5 cents
Summer, or 2-3 times more than the rate in BC. Because of better, more
effecient building practices..once we were in, the first years annual energy
cost (mainly electric w/ 2 Carrier A/C-Heat pumps 12.5 SEER and 14.1 SEER)
was the same $ 804 US or $ 1200 CDN at the prevailing rate of exchange.

R
Kris Krieger
2005-10-12 21:52:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy
Post by Kris Krieger
When I lived in the Vancouver, BC area, the requirements for
insulation were low because the climate was supposedly "mild".
Because of crappy insulation, for a similarly-sized house, we paid a
minimum there of 2X more (sometimes up to 3X more) in heating costs
than we'd paid in the *Toronto* area.
When we were in the Vancouver area in the mid-late 1990s, our "equal
payment" energy (hydro and gas combined) was running ~ $ 100-103/mo
on an annual basis..Didnt know how good we had it then. Total about
$1200 yr. The electric rate was ~4 cents US/ 5.5 cents CDN KWH
then.
We moved to Az in 1998 and built a new home there (R38 ceilings R 24
walls) that was 60% larger and the electric rate was 7.5 cents Winter
and 9.5 cents Summer, or 2-3 times more than the rate in BC.
No hydro in AZ ;)

What bugged me wasn't the cost so much as that the house was never
comfortable.

I think this is somehting people totally forget about when the topic of
insulation arises. Good insulation helps the house maintain a more even
temperature - smaller temp gradients and no drafts.

The place we're renting now (in Houston) has the same old cheapjunk 1/8"
single pane windows it was built with back in the 60's (the Aluminum frames
are also weak and the glazing putty is completely deteriorated - IOW Zero
Maintenence). The summer was bad, the A/C unit could not keep up with the
100+ temps we were getting, even though it ran almost constantly. I have
no idea what the "Winter" (such as it is here) will be like. I might build
cheap insulators (wood frame, plastic on both sides, some foam stripping
around the edge to hold it and plug leaks) for several of the windows, such
as the den and the bedroom, simply to enhance the comfort level.

And, as we discovered with out Masachusetts house, if the windows aren't
put in properly (if gaps aren;t sealed and so on), they might as well be
single pane - those used to *frost up*. I was thoroughly disgusted.

Insulation only works if it's installed properly...
Post by Rudy
Because
of better, more effecient building practices..once we were in, the
first years annual energy cost (mainly electric w/ 2 Carrier A/C-Heat
pumps 12.5 SEER and 14.1 SEER) was the same $ 804 US or $ 1200 CDN
at the prevailing rate of exchange.
R
I have a design for a passive cooling system that I want to eventually
check out, re: whether it'd work. In a very dry climate, as I discovered
in southern CA, I personally am comfy up to about 94 to 96 deg F so long as
I'm in the shade and have a fan on. Have to set up a cooling system for
the computer, tho' ;) .

In a wet climate, need the A/C to help knock moisture out of the air.
There, insualtion and especially sealing makes a big difference. One day,
I hope we settle down enough to make building our own place worth-while.
I'd like to have a variety of "green" options incorporated to save on water
and energy (and hopefully even generate energy and collect water). Can't
get any of that in a pre-built.
JTMcC
2005-10-13 02:39:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.

JTMcC.
Duane Bozarth
2005-10-13 14:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
Electric World, Directory of Electric Power Producers (1999 Ed) shows 30
generating stations in the state of AZ of which 6 are hydro. So 20% by
number of installations. But of the hydro installations, only Glen
Canyon is >1000 MWe and there's just a total of 2389 MWe out of 15120
MWe total is hydro (16%). For comparison, Palo Verde Nuclear Station
output is 3810 MWe (25%).
Duane Bozarth
2005-10-13 15:42:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
Electric World, Directory of Electric Power Producers (1999 Ed) shows 30
generating stations in the state of AZ of which 6 are hydro. So 20% by
number of installations. But of the hydro installations, only Glen
Canyon is >1000 MWe and there's just a total of 2389 MWe out of 15120
MWe total is hydro (16%). For comparison, Palo Verde Nuclear Station
output is 3810 MWe (25%).
Interestingly enough, just after this I saw a rant in another ng
complaining that Palo Verde is now offline for an indefinite time owing
to some unspecified safety concerns. I haven't yet looked for official
confirmation/backup on the causes...
JTMcC
2005-10-13 16:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
Electric World, Directory of Electric Power Producers (1999 Ed) shows 30
generating stations in the state of AZ of which 6 are hydro. So 20% by
number of installations. But of the hydro installations, only Glen
Canyon is >1000 MWe and there's just a total of 2389 MWe out of 15120
MWe total is hydro (16%). For comparison, Palo Verde Nuclear Station
output is 3810 MWe (25%).
Glen Canyon Dam, Hoover Dam, Davis Dam, Parker Dam, Headgate Rock Dam and
I'm missing some I'm sure.

Your 1999 numbers are way out of date, several gas fired plants have been
built since then and I believe Springerville has added one and maybe two (?)
base load steamers since then.

Comparing output to Palo Verde is somewhat missleading, Palo Verde (and it's
sister plant San Onofre) have (or at least they did in the late 90's) the
second biggest turbines in the world, the former Soviets built one larger.
So Palo Verde is among the bigest of the big boys.

But anyway, we have quite a few hydro turbines in AZ.

JTMcC.
RicodJour
2005-10-13 16:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
I had an old girlfriend from Norway. There's so much hydroelectric
power being generated there that electricity is one step up from free.
She used to leave _all_ of the lights on _all_ of the time - daytime
too. Drove me nuts.

R
JTMcC
2005-10-13 16:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
Electric World, Directory of Electric Power Producers (1999 Ed) shows 30
generating stations in the state of AZ of which 6 are hydro. So 20% by
number of installations. But of the hydro installations, only Glen
Canyon is >1000 MWe and there's just a total of 2389 MWe out of 15120
MWe total is hydro (16%). For comparison, Palo Verde Nuclear Station
output is 3810 MWe (25%).
Glen Canyon Dam, Hoover Dam, Davis Dam, Parker Dam, Headgate Rock Dam and
I'm missing some I'm sure.
Your 1999 numbers are way out of date, several gas fired plants have been
built since then and I believe Springerville has added one and maybe two
(?) base load steamers since then.
Comparing output to Palo Verde is somewhat missleading, Palo Verde (and
it's sister plant San Onofre) have (or at least they did in the late 90's)
the second biggest turbines in the world, the former Soviets built one
larger. So Palo Verde is among the bigest of the big boys.
But anyway, we have quite a few hydro turbines in AZ.
JTMcC.
I forgot Waddell Dam at Lake Pleasant.

JTMcC.
Duane Bozarth
2005-10-13 17:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
Electric World, Directory of Electric Power Producers (1999 Ed) shows 30
generating stations in the state of AZ of which 6 are hydro. So 20% by
number of installations. But of the hydro installations, only Glen
Canyon is >1000 MWe and there's just a total of 2389 MWe out of 15120
MWe total is hydro (16%). For comparison, Palo Verde Nuclear Station
output is 3810 MWe (25%).
Glen Canyon Dam, Hoover Dam, Davis Dam, Parker Dam, Headgate Rock Dam and
I'm missing some I'm sure.
Your 1999 numbers are way out of date, several gas fired plants have been
built since then and I believe Springerville has added one and maybe two (?)
base load steamers since then.
But those simply make the hydro percentages lower, not higher...
Post by JTMcC
Comparing output to Palo Verde is somewhat missleading, Palo Verde (and it's
sister plant San Onofre) have (or at least they did in the late 90's) the
second biggest turbines in the world, the former Soviets built one larger.
So Palo Verde is among the bigest of the big boys.
I simply compared output of Palo Verde station to the hydro output in
AZ.
Post by JTMcC
But anyway, we have quite a few hydro turbines in AZ.
Didn't say there weren't, just that they're not the predominant
generator.

What was in the E World summary list

Glen Canyon - 1267 MW
Hoover - 671
Davis - 225
Horse Mesa - 130
Mormon Flat - 58
Roosevelt - 35
Cross Cut - 3 (I missed this one in the previous totals, btw)

However, when I look at the detailed by utility/bureau, I see they have

Hoover - 2078 (1039 NV/1039 AZ)

Why the 671 attributed in the summary I don't see offhand as they have
correct total apparently for Davis and Glen Canyon, etc.

Also add Parker from your list at 120.

That would make the totals something like

Hydro (AZ) - 2877
Total - 15488
Fraction - 19%

Adding the NV side of Hoover
Hydro (AZ) - 3916
Total - 16527
Fraction - 24%

So first didn't have Parker nor Headgate off your list but did find
Parker in the Interior detail section later but it's only 120 MW. A
search didn't find Headgate except as a BIA reclamation project so doubt
there's a big enough hydro station there to materially affect the above.

Just interested in how much actual hydro was/is as compared to total is
all...
JTMcC
2005-10-13 17:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
Electric World, Directory of Electric Power Producers (1999 Ed) shows 30
generating stations in the state of AZ of which 6 are hydro. So 20% by
number of installations. But of the hydro installations, only Glen
Canyon is >1000 MWe and there's just a total of 2389 MWe out of 15120
MWe total is hydro (16%). For comparison, Palo Verde Nuclear Station
output is 3810 MWe (25%).
Glen Canyon Dam, Hoover Dam, Davis Dam, Parker Dam, Headgate Rock Dam and
I'm missing some I'm sure.
Your 1999 numbers are way out of date, several gas fired plants have been
built since then and I believe Springerville has added one and maybe two (?)
base load steamers since then.
But those simply make the hydro percentages lower, not higher...
Trust me, no one has said that hydro electric was the predominant form of
power generation in Arizona. Certainly not me.

I DO have a bit of an interest in the hydro generation plants in Arizona
because I've worked in quite a few of them (and quite a few of the non hydro
PH's). My comment was that there ARE hydro plants in Arizona, I've burned
tons of welding rod in and around them. That's all.

Headgate Rock has three small horizontal units.

JTMcC.
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Comparing output to Palo Verde is somewhat missleading, Palo Verde (and it's
sister plant San Onofre) have (or at least they did in the late 90's) the
second biggest turbines in the world, the former Soviets built one larger.
So Palo Verde is among the bigest of the big boys.
I simply compared output of Palo Verde station to the hydro output in
AZ.
Post by JTMcC
But anyway, we have quite a few hydro turbines in AZ.
Didn't say there weren't, just that they're not the predominant
generator.
What was in the E World summary list
Glen Canyon - 1267 MW
Hoover - 671
Davis - 225
Horse Mesa - 130
Mormon Flat - 58
Roosevelt - 35
Cross Cut - 3 (I missed this one in the previous totals, btw)
However, when I look at the detailed by utility/bureau, I see they have
Hoover - 2078 (1039 NV/1039 AZ)
Why the 671 attributed in the summary I don't see offhand as they have
correct total apparently for Davis and Glen Canyon, etc.
Also add Parker from your list at 120.
That would make the totals something like
Hydro (AZ) - 2877
Total - 15488
Fraction - 19%
Adding the NV side of Hoover
Hydro (AZ) - 3916
Total - 16527
Fraction - 24%
So first didn't have Parker nor Headgate off your list but did find
Parker in the Interior detail section later but it's only 120 MW. A
search didn't find Headgate except as a BIA reclamation project so doubt
there's a big enough hydro station there to materially affect the above.
Just interested in how much actual hydro was/is as compared to total is
all...
Duane Bozarth
2005-10-13 18:16:27 UTC
Permalink
JTMcC wrote:
...
Post by JTMcC
Trust me, no one has said that hydro electric was the predominant form of
power generation in Arizona. Certainly not me.
Chill, man! :)

I didn't say that anyone (and most particularly you) did--altho the
first post could conceivably have been interpreted that way, I knew
better. I just didn't know offhand how much so thought I'd look it
up....
Post by JTMcC
I DO have a bit of an interest in the hydro generation plants in Arizona
because I've worked in quite a few of them (and quite a few of the non hydro
PH's). My comment was that there ARE hydro plants in Arizona, I've burned
tons of welding rod in and around them. That's all.
I ken...

And I've an interest in generation in general having spent 30+ years in
engineering starting off w/ 10 at B&W NPGD and most of the rest at least
utility-related gradually evolving to the fossil side. So, I was simply
curious as to how much hydro actually was/is in AZ as compared to
total...

They'd certainly never let me near a weld, particularly in a nuke! :)
Post by JTMcC
Headgate Rock has three small horizontal units.
OK, that makes sense. It's also listed as BIA-operated so any
generation may never leave reservation, hence not show up in the EW
listings? I'm totally guessing there....

I'm also guessing the problem w/ Hoover numbers as reported in the AZ
summary is who is the "owner" of various fractions altho I didn't track
it down. Electrical World is very conscious of "who gets what share of
what" so I assume there's major fractions that go to NV and elsewhere
that account for the total capacity. I was surprised that the first
number was that low and should have dug more initially but was lazy (and
am still too lazy to track down the various entities to find where
they're listed to add up to the total capacity although I'm sure the
data is there).

Anyway, I never intended anything personal--as noted, I just had
curiousity piqued.
JTMcC
2005-10-14 01:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duane Bozarth
...
Post by JTMcC
Trust me, no one has said that hydro electric was the predominant form of
power generation in Arizona. Certainly not me.
Chill, man! :)
I didn't say that anyone (and most particularly you) did--altho the
first post could conceivably have been interpreted that way, I knew
better. I just didn't know offhand how much so thought I'd look it
up....
Post by JTMcC
I DO have a bit of an interest in the hydro generation plants in Arizona
because I've worked in quite a few of them (and quite a few of the non hydro
PH's). My comment was that there ARE hydro plants in Arizona, I've burned
tons of welding rod in and around them. That's all.
I ken...
And I've an interest in generation in general having spent 30+ years in
engineering starting off w/ 10 at B&W NPGD and most of the rest at least
utility-related gradually evolving to the fossil side. So, I was simply
curious as to how much hydro actually was/is in AZ as compared to
total...
They'd certainly never let me near a weld, particularly in a nuke! :)
Post by JTMcC
Headgate Rock has three small horizontal units.
OK, that makes sense. It's also listed as BIA-operated so any
generation may never leave reservation, hence not show up in the EW
listings? I'm totally guessing there....
I'm also guessing the problem w/ Hoover numbers as reported in the AZ
summary is who is the "owner" of various fractions altho I didn't track
it down. Electrical World is very conscious of "who gets what share of
what" so I assume there's major fractions that go to NV and elsewhere
that account for the total capacity. I was surprised that the first
number was that low and should have dug more initially but was lazy (and
am still too lazy to track down the various entities to find where
they're listed to add up to the total capacity although I'm sure the
data is there).
Anyway, I never intended anything personal--as noted, I just had
curiousity piqued.
JTMcC
2005-10-14 01:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Palo Verde is down today. One unit is down for a schedued outage, the other
two were shut down, the radio news says for a "safety" related issue.
A friend of mine was there to install some piping today and they got sent
home.

JTMcC.
Post by Duane Bozarth
...
Post by JTMcC
Trust me, no one has said that hydro electric was the predominant form of
power generation in Arizona. Certainly not me.
Chill, man! :)
I didn't say that anyone (and most particularly you) did--altho the
first post could conceivably have been interpreted that way, I knew
better. I just didn't know offhand how much so thought I'd look it
up....
Post by JTMcC
I DO have a bit of an interest in the hydro generation plants in Arizona
because I've worked in quite a few of them (and quite a few of the non hydro
PH's). My comment was that there ARE hydro plants in Arizona, I've burned
tons of welding rod in and around them. That's all.
I ken...
And I've an interest in generation in general having spent 30+ years in
engineering starting off w/ 10 at B&W NPGD and most of the rest at least
utility-related gradually evolving to the fossil side. So, I was simply
curious as to how much hydro actually was/is in AZ as compared to
total...
They'd certainly never let me near a weld, particularly in a nuke! :)
Post by JTMcC
Headgate Rock has three small horizontal units.
OK, that makes sense. It's also listed as BIA-operated so any
generation may never leave reservation, hence not show up in the EW
listings? I'm totally guessing there....
I'm also guessing the problem w/ Hoover numbers as reported in the AZ
summary is who is the "owner" of various fractions altho I didn't track
it down. Electrical World is very conscious of "who gets what share of
what" so I assume there's major fractions that go to NV and elsewhere
that account for the total capacity. I was surprised that the first
number was that low and should have dug more initially but was lazy (and
am still too lazy to track down the various entities to find where
they're listed to add up to the total capacity although I'm sure the
data is there).
Anyway, I never intended anything personal--as noted, I just had
curiousity piqued.
Duane Bozarth
2005-10-14 02:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Palo Verde is down today. One unit is down for a schedued outage, the other
two were shut down, the radio news says for a "safety" related issue.
A friend of mine was there to install some piping today and they got sent
home.
I saw that...went and looked a just a <very> little. It appears they
did some mod to the ECCS piping system that changed differential
switching head that might in some instances at least delay if not stop
pump start. Apparently the changes were done w/o filing a revision and
a full analysis of the effects. Was sufficient to cause a NRC "yellow".

Sounds like a month at best to me since they'll have to do the analysis
and then defend it before any fix...apparently they did the same mod on
all three units.
JTMcC
2005-10-14 04:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Time to put a couple more units in that plant, so's everybody can fuel up
their neat little electric cars whilst they sleep ; )
What we need in this country is another nuke building boom.

JTMcC.
Post by Duane Bozarth
Post by JTMcC
Palo Verde is down today. One unit is down for a schedued outage, the other
two were shut down, the radio news says for a "safety" related issue.
A friend of mine was there to install some piping today and they got sent
home.
I saw that...went and looked a just a <very> little. It appears they
did some mod to the ECCS piping system that changed differential
switching head that might in some instances at least delay if not stop
pump start. Apparently the changes were done w/o filing a revision and
a full analysis of the effects. Was sufficient to cause a NRC "yellow".
Sounds like a month at best to me since they'll have to do the analysis
and then defend it before any fix...apparently they did the same mod on
all three units.
JTMcC
2005-10-21 22:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Palo Verde is down today. One unit is down for a schedued outage, the
other two were shut down, the radio news says for a "safety" related
issue.
A friend of mine was there to install some piping today and they got sent
home.
JTMcC.
Palo Verde is up and running today, 10/21/05. Except for Unit 3 which is in
the middle of a turnaround.

JTMcC.
Post by JTMcC
Post by Duane Bozarth
...
Post by JTMcC
Trust me, no one has said that hydro electric was the predominant form of
power generation in Arizona. Certainly not me.
Chill, man! :)
I didn't say that anyone (and most particularly you) did--altho the
first post could conceivably have been interpreted that way, I knew
better. I just didn't know offhand how much so thought I'd look it
up....
Post by JTMcC
I DO have a bit of an interest in the hydro generation plants in Arizona
because I've worked in quite a few of them (and quite a few of the non hydro
PH's). My comment was that there ARE hydro plants in Arizona, I've burned
tons of welding rod in and around them. That's all.
I ken...
And I've an interest in generation in general having spent 30+ years in
engineering starting off w/ 10 at B&W NPGD and most of the rest at least
utility-related gradually evolving to the fossil side. So, I was simply
curious as to how much hydro actually was/is in AZ as compared to
total...
They'd certainly never let me near a weld, particularly in a nuke! :)
Post by JTMcC
Headgate Rock has three small horizontal units.
OK, that makes sense. It's also listed as BIA-operated so any
generation may never leave reservation, hence not show up in the EW
listings? I'm totally guessing there....
I'm also guessing the problem w/ Hoover numbers as reported in the AZ
summary is who is the "owner" of various fractions altho I didn't track
it down. Electrical World is very conscious of "who gets what share of
what" so I assume there's major fractions that go to NV and elsewhere
that account for the total capacity. I was surprised that the first
number was that low and should have dug more initially but was lazy (and
am still too lazy to track down the various entities to find where
they're listed to add up to the total capacity although I'm sure the
data is there).
Anyway, I never intended anything personal--as noted, I just had
curiousity piqued.
Duane Bozarth
2005-10-21 23:17:09 UTC
Permalink
JTMcC wrote:
...
Post by JTMcC
Palo Verde is up and running today, 10/21/05. Except for Unit 3 which is in
the middle of a turnaround.
...

Kewl....quicker than I had figured might be...

Kris Krieger
2005-10-13 22:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
JTMcC.
Please note the ;) (wink)
JTMcC
2005-10-14 01:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kris Krieger
Post by JTMcC
Post by Kris Krieger
No hydro in AZ ;)
Lots of Hydro in Arizona.
JTMcC.
Please note the ;) (wink)
Noted that.

JTMcC.
Lil' Dave
2005-10-07 12:26:46 UTC
Permalink
If you plan to live there indefinitely, yes.
If you mean in terms of value of the home for resale, no.
Post by Harry
my builder offers to upgrade the insulation in the ceiling from R19 to R30
for $1000. It is a 2200sf house in Florida. Is it worth to do the upgrade
?
Chip Harper
2005-10-14 14:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Yes, those electric bills add up

In SWFL
--
Chip Harper


http://home.comcast.net/~hot4cad/
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